Holmes Recalls Loud Trump Call With Sondland: Impeachment Update
NEW WORK(Capital Markers in Africa) – The House Intelligence Committee impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump plans Thursday to hear from Fiona Hill, the former National Security Council director for Europe and Russia, and David Holmes, a Foreign Service officer at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv.
Here are the latest developments:
Holmes Recalls Loud Trump Call With Sondland (10:43 a.m.)
Holmes said he could hear the call between diplomat Gordon Sondland and Trump at an outdoor restaurant terrace in Kyiv because the president spoke so loudly that Sondland “winced” at least twice and pulled the phone away from his ear.
Holmes reiterated that Sondland said the “Biden investigation” was what Trump was interested in, contradicting Sondland’s testimony a day earlier that he didn’t recall bringing Biden’s name into their conversation.
Holmes also discussed his general disbelief over the call.
“I’ve never seen anything like this in my foreign service career,” he said of Sondland’s call with the president over a non-secure phone that even he could overhear, as well as the colorful language over a highly sensitive subject.
Russia’s Goal Is Chaos in U.S., Hill Says (10:34 a.m.)
Hill said the current division and chaos in U.S. politics “is exactly what the Russian government was hoping for” in meddling and trying to pit one side of the American electorate against another.
Russia sought to ensure that if Hillary Clinton became president instead of Trump, she also would have faced “major questions about her legitimacy,” Hill said.
During questioning by Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, she said the Russians are trying to deflect blame for election-meddling onto Ukraine, a former Soviet republic.
“The Russians like to put a lot of blame on U.S. allies for incidents they themselves have perpetrated,” Hill said. Russians have a “vested interest” in putting Ukraine officials “in a very bad light.”
Holmes testified that U.S. anti-corruption efforts were undermined by the request to Ukraine to conduct investigations sought by Trump. And even though the freeze on security aid to Ukraine was lifted, the country still didn’t get the White House meeting and other things officials needed, Holmes said.
“I think they’re being very careful. They still need us now,” Holmes said.
Giuliani Role Frustrated Bolton, Holmes Says (10:16 a.m.)
Holmes also said that during an Aug. 27 meeting when then-National Security Advisor John Bolton was visiting Ukraine, he heard Bolton express frustration about Giuliani’s influence with Trump and also about diplomat Gordon Sondland’s “expansive” view of his mandate.
Bolton made clear that he couldn’t do anything about Giuliani’s role. The national security advisor recommended that Ukraine’s new prosecutor general open a channel with U.S. Attorney General William Barr instead of the informal channel that involved Giuliani.
Holmes Describes Confusion on Giuliani Role (10:03 a.m.)
Holmes said that last April, as Trump’s private lawyer Rudy Giuliani began taking a direct role in Ukrainian diplomacy, at least one close aide to the incoming Ukrainian president thought Giuliani worked for Vice President Mike Pence.
Holmes said Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s campaign chairman, Ivan Bakanov, said he had been contacted by “someone named Giuliani who said he was an adviser to the vice president.”
The U.S. embassy aide also quoted diplomat Gordon Sondland as saying about Giuliani months later, “Dammit Rudy. Every time Rudy gets involved he goes and f—s everything up.”
Holmes Describes Demands for Biden Probe (9:46 a.m.)
Holmes said a “barrage” of allegations against then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch by Rudy Giuliani and others including Ukrainian officials “is unlike anything I have seen in my professional career.”
Holmes said envoy William Taylor described a June 28 call with Ukraine’s president on which it was “made clear that some action on a Burisma/Biden investigation was a precondition for an Oval Office meeting.”
The embassy aide’s opening statement also described a June 26 phone call he overheard between Trump and Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland. Afterward, Holmes said Sondland told him “that the President did not ‘give a s–t
about Ukraine.’”
Sondland said Trump cared about “‘big stuff’ that benefits the president,
like the ‘Biden investigation’ that Mr. Giuliani was pushing.“ Sondland on Wednesday confirmed the broad outlines of the conversations, but said he didn’t remember mentioning Biden.
Hill Says Falsehoods Serve Russian Interests (8:49 a.m.)
In her advance testimony, Hill said, “Right now, Russia’s security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election.”
“President Putin and the Russian security services operate like a Super PAC,” Hill said. “They deploy millions of dollars to weaponize our own political opposition research and false narratives.”
“We are running out of time to stop them,” she said. “In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.”
Ukraine “plays an important role” in U.S. national security, she said. “I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternate narrative that the Ukrainian government is a U.S. adversary, and that Ukraine — not Russia — attacked us in 2016.”
Hill Slams ‘Fictional Narrative’ on Ukraine (8:12 a.m.)
Hill, in advanced testimony Thursday, warned lawmakers against believing a “fictional narrative” that it was Ukraine and not Russia that interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” Hill said in prepared remarks. “The unfortunate truth is that Russia was the foreign power that systematically attacked our democratic institutions in 2016. This is the public conclusion of our intelligence agencies, confirmed in bipartisan Congressional reports. It is beyond dispute, even if some of the underlying details must remain classified.”
Hill emphasized that she is a nonpartisan foreign policy expert, who has served under three different Republican and Democratic presidents and that she has “no interest in advancing the outcome of your inquiry in any particular direction, except toward the truth.”
She warned that U.S. national security has been harmed by the politicization of support for Ukraine. “The Russian government’s goal is to weaken our country — to diminish America’s global role and to neutralize a perceived U.S. threat to Russian interests,” she said. “President Putin and the Russian security services aim to counter U.S. foreign policy objectives in Europe, including in Ukraine, where Moscow wishes to reassert political and economic dominance.”
Hill added, “I respect the work that this Congress does in carrying out its constitutional responsibilities, including in this inquiry, and I am here to help you to the best of my ability. If the President, or anyone else, impedes or subverts the national security of the United States in order to further domestic political or personal interests, that is more than worthy of your attention. But we must not let domestic politics stop us from defending ourselves against the foreign powers who truly wish us harm.”
Inquiry to Hear From Ex-Russia Adviser Hill (7 a.m.)
Hill, Trump’s former Russia adviser, said during her sworn deposition in October that then-National Security Adviser John Bolton called Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani a “hand grenade that is going to blow everyone up.”
Hill also said regarding U.S. diplomat Gordon Sondland’s activities on Ukraine policy, “Some of it was comical, but it was also, for me and for others, deeply concerning.” She said Sondland “was often meeting with people he had no information about.”
Holmes is the Kyiv embassy staff member who said he overheard Sondland’s phone call with Trump on July 26, the day after the president spoke with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
Holmes said he heard Trump ask Sondland about “the investigations” — a reference to probes regarding former Vice President Joe Biden and the 2016 election. According to Holmes, Sondland also told Trump over the phone that Zelenskiy “loves your ass.”
Source: Bloomberg Business News